CHARACTER
I despise the idea of "Mega-churches". There, I said it. I'm sure a lot of you go to them, but here's what I cannot stand about the concept. Any time you institute the perspective of power on a grand scale in the house of God, you are SO headed for trouble. Didn't God tell His people what He thought of "Kings", yet here we go again, making "Super-Christians" out of great speakers. Pack the arena folks, we got us a real, live MAN OF GOD!
Ted Haggard's apology means nothing to me. There are plenty of Christians ready and willing to forgive him, and you can go right ahead, but I'll tell you, I need to see some repentence before I'm willing to say, okay, never mind. If you've ever been through a church split, it is a painful situation. This has to be ten times worse. TRUE repentance means you come out BEFORE the scandal hits the paper and you apologize HUMBLY to your flock. You don't send a letter to your 14,000 sheep and run with your tail between your legs. And let us not forgot the lie right up front. I don't care about any political ramifications of this. I don't care if you think I'm judgmental. There are consequences to his sins that will hit so many. His wife. His family. His following. I am hurt for that man's flock. People who loved and trusted him, and looked up to him for leadership. He broke that covenant.
Do I want to see him restored? Absolutely. Do I think it needs to happen today? No, I don't. I think one of the biggest scandals to hit the church is that we don't call sin, sin. And we don't take it seriously. I remember when we had a man have an affair in our church with a woman in our church. The church was threatened with a lawsuit if they went public and so everything was just swept under the rug. I'm not anxious to condemn anyone, but the church really is called to expel the yeast and when we don't do it, there are repercussions on the whole body. We're keeping a limb with gangrene and saying, no, no, it's okay, we forgive you.
I don't get the latest use of the word "apology". Did you hear John Kerry's? An apology takes responsibility for what you've done, who you've hurt, it doesn't make excuses or worse yet, call people stupid for "misunderstanding" them! We are all sinners, every one. I don't think anyone who has been in a church for long has trouble believing there's a hypocrite among us -- because after all, we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Pride is going to be the church's downfall. In California, lawyers are going after Bishops, who knowingly hid a child molester within their walls, transferring him from parish to parish, to avoid taking responsibility and sparing further children pain and suffering. On what planet do these leaders think the Bible would condone this? I think they have to be atheists, because to think that they're going to get away with this, is only to believe in their own righteousness. Why does the law have to do what the church should have done morally thirty years ago? Is it any wonder we look like total hypocrites to the outside world?
There's only one way out of this mess, and it's HUMILITY and an honest look at ourselves. I know the media has tried to make this about politics, and trying to make Christians look like the ultimate hypocrites, so that we might believe everything we know is a lie. But you and I, who know the Living God, we know this has nothing to do with Him, but the sinful pride of man. And it's ugly!
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28 Comments:
Rock on sister! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.
Karen, Thanks for your post. I agree with you. We are to forgive, but that doesn't mean that someone is not responsible for his or her actions.
You are also right that this hurt a lot of people. Unfortunately, this situation hurts every single Christian - because the world puts us all in the same "basket." They do not see that there are pastors out there who do everything possible to NOT put themselves in situations that even have a hint of immoral behavior. No, they read about situations like this and decide that all Christians are hypocrites - and Satan is having a field day.
Kristin,
Once again I applaud you for your courage to take a stand for Truth. We need more people who fear God more than they fear man.
God bless,
R Bumpas
Right On!
Thank you.
Anna
While Ted Haggard's secret sins may be a blow to the Christian image, the reactions of many of the people in the church he once pastored is a testiment to the grace God freely pours out on us and expects us to freely give to others. I am blown away by the grace these wronged people are demonstrating to the world. They know America is watching them, they know that they are no better than Ted Haggard- for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God- and they choose to forgive and move on in the midst of the pain.
I'm not against mega churches, I'm against mega men or women. When one person is lifted up and celebrated as God's gift to the world, I instictively turn away from that person. I can't bring myself to read books by highly celebrated Christian leaders, or get excited by something they say or do.
To classify all mega churches in the same way is an error. I used to go to a three-thousand-member church where humility and small groups were valued and no one person sought attention or fame. It was a church full of resources for reaching the community. Their focus was out-reach and love for their city and they were effective. On the other hand, I visited a very large church in the same city whose focus was the financial prosperity of its members. The pastor was practically worshipped and had a national tv show. It was completely different than my home church. Not all mega churches are the same.
Ted Haggard is a sinner. Who of us isn't? I'm no better than he is, even though my secret sins run more along the lines of vanity or pride. Still, I'm in no position to withold forgiveness from a man who's repented. He SHOULD have repented before being exposed. (The Bible says what's done in secret will be shouted from the house tops.) He SHOULD NOT have been in a position of leadership with deep struggles with sin going on in his life. He SHOULD NOT be in a place of spiritual leadership again. We MUST forgive him, or we will not be forgiven for our sins.
My two cents...
Praying for all those left in the wake of this disaster.
You're right, Kristin, we don't call sin "sin" anymore! Let's speak the truth in love so we can find restoration and healing.
We need accountability partners to help us stay on track and to be prayer warriors who intercede for one another. Only then can we make an impact on our world.
With God leading the way, we CAN make a difference!
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Well, I couldn't say it any better than Kristin did in her post.
Right on, Kristin. You Go Girl!
I grew up as a pastor's kid and I have seen and experienced first hand the hypocrisy that goes on in the church. (Not by my family - I just want to clarify that.)
I think part of the problem is there are too many who want their kingdom NOW - instead of waiting for His glorious appearing and our reign with Him in heaven. They do whatever they can to build their "kingdom" here on this earth. It's true in any church - big or small.
I've seen and heard of many a church that has been devastated by a family or group of people bent on building their kingdom by controlling the pastor, board and anyone in the congregation who will follow them. They hold the church hostage. The church can't keep a pastor and may eventually split. It takes years for the healing to begin - after the wheat has been separated from the chaff. It's a tragedy and it's rampant.
We have a divorce rate in the American church that's as high or higher than that of the secular community.
What is today's distinction between "churched and unchurched?" What sets us apart? If the world can't see any difference in us, why would they be drawn to the church?
What we need is to get down on our knees and pray for revival - the acknowledgement that we need more of God. Let Him come and refresh and renew us - and CHANGE us. It's HIS church, not ours. Only He can make the difference. No program, no home cell group, no pastor, music leader or mega church can do it.
(This is a commercial, but a good book to read to gain some perspective is "Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire" by Jim Cymbala, pastor of The Brooklyn Tabernacle.)
Ok, the rant is over. Thanks.
It is true that forgiveness is given only when a person truly repents--- TO GOD. No where in the Bible does God say that we are to make sure a person is truly repentant before WE forgive. We are told not to judge others, and to forgive 70x7 times in response to a request for forgiveness. Whether or not a person is truly sorry is between him/her and God.
I have one more comment. You know, I think part of the problem is the American church has preached more about God's grace and love - which it definitely true - and not enough about judgement. I'm not saying we need to bring back fire and brimstone, but we've let the 60's philosophy of "Free love" and "If it feels good, do it." infiltrate the Church. The world has brought the Church down to its level instead of the Church raising society to the Church's level. Many of us haven't experience true and real deliverance and salvation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we aren't saved. I'm saying we've lost the awe of Calvary. We don't appreciate our salvation. We didn't have to sacrifice much for it.
For example, compare the American church to a foreign church. Many in those foreign congregations have to hide their church from the government or risk imprisonment or death. Many don't have an entire Bible - but rely on torn pages and snippets of the Gospel. Some walk miles and miles to attend church. Yet those people have a fervency to their faith - because it IS a walk of faith for them.They had to give up A LOT for their belief in Christ. They've been delivered from so much and have suffered for their faith. But their lives have been changed.
What do we have to give up? Not much these days. Do we really know what true faith is? What have we been delivered from? Some folks in those foreign countries have been delivered from demon possession, have been miraculously healed. They have experienced God first hand. Have we? Other than attending services, have we reached out and touched God? Have we let him change our lives? What are we willing to sacrifice or give up to experience more of Him? Do we really appreciate Calvary?
Great post, Kristin.
(BTW, you can't copy and paste one line of your posts on your newly-designed Girls Write Out. It highlights large segments of the entire blog.)
"Pride is going to be the downfall of the Church," you said.
Amen.
It was also the downfall of Lucifer, one of the most beautiful and powerful angels in heaven.
My prayers are going up for all the people the Haggard Hoopla touches.
My prayers are especially fervent for ME: Lord, please keep ME pure. Please help me to honor You and be true to You MY ENTIRE LIFE. Help ME not to fail. Amen.
Yes. And Jesus was harshest with the Pharisees, the leaders, the ones who should know better. They knew the law, yet had no grasp of what Messiah meant or what true worship was.
I totally agree. I was watching Rosie O'Donnel on "The View" yesterday and she was glorying in the downfall of a prominent Evangelical leader. I despise giving ammo to those who don't understand the grace God becuase it draws them further from God's grace to sinners and the chasm becomes so much deeper!!
We are voting here in WI for a marriage amendment to keep traditional marriage between one man/one woman. We should be voting "yes" however I've heard talk that because of this man's downfall they're not sure it matters anymore because even prominent Christians are veering into this area of gray ...
It's so discouraging. Calling sin sin is so important becuase only then is the blood of Christ precious.
Kristin--
You said it perfectly! One question I have had in all of this is "How long would he have continued in this sin, if the truth wasn't about to come out from somewhere else?"
I believe it would be fair to say that this man could have continued in this sin for another three years, while still attempting to "lead" his flock.
While God said we must forgive, it is important for us to remember that there are consequences to our actions, especially as Christians. He should never be allowed to pastor any church anywhere ever again.
The other question is, why in the world was it necessary for him to get Larry Stockstill to fly from Louisiana to Colorado to read "his" apology and invite the media to witness this atrocity?
True repentance would have meant Ted Haggard standing in front of his entire congregation, filled with humility, and honestly asking God and his members for their forgiveness. And it would have happened long before someone was threatening to expose him.
I understand that all Christians make mistakes. I'm sure I have made millions and will probably make a trillion more before it's all over, but we must understand that this man chose to believe in his own flesh, rather than the Word of God. I would assume that this male prostitute did not just show up at his home and force him into whatever it was they did. No one dropped drugs into his mouth while he snored open-mouthed at night. He went searching for these things that would ultimately lead to his own downfall.
While situations like this may happen to any Christian, most Christians don't go out and actively pursue this garbage. As a Christian, it is harder to do so, which means, he probably put more effort into the pursuit and cover-up of these activities than your average non-believer.
Haggard needs prayer, but most importantly, his congregation, as well as the people who will be led astray or disillusioned by this, need to be lifted up in prayer that God would strengthened them and comfort them in this awful time.
I would agree with Reese about mega churches. It's the mega men and women who are at fault. I went to a large (not quite mega) church that had a split due to infidelity on the pastor's part...the real shame wasn't that he said, "The devil made me do it." But that he said, "God told me to do it." And then half of his 'flock' believed him. Now I am at a new church "hey Denise" and it's pastor is one of the most humble men I have met. The church my wife and I left a few months ago (and let me tell you, not even remotely close to mega) was brought down by pride. So yeah, pride will destroy a mega church and a minor church just as the rain falls on the just and the unjust...wait...I think I just mixed a metaphor.
My husband and I left a church - not a megachurch but a mainstream denomination - because we saw that there was no black and white here. My husband left before I did (becoming Catholic, which I did later) but eventually, I had to go too, because I never heard that sin was real, I never heard that the Bible was true, I never heard that anything was truly bad or truly good. The local chapter of NOW met in the church building to discuss how to keep abortion legal, the women's ministry had a WITCH come to perform a "ritual" and the pastor who baptized our daughter was divorced from his wife (who was still the director of the choir - kind of awkward, I would think) and had married a parishioner who was also divorced from her husband. Nothing was actually ever mentioned from the pulpit about the situation because, "people will eventually figure it out." I needed to find a place where White was White and Black was Black and Sin was real and the tenets of the faith don't change just because the media says they should.
The attempt to change God's No to a Yes is what is wrong with our world today.
Kristen,
so, i was at walmart today, and i saw your newest book, calm cool and adjusted,and i was all ready to buy it when i realized i have absolutely no money. i stood staring at it pitifully until my mom came over and i tried to convince her to buy it for me, and when that didnt work, i begged for chocolate- and what do you know, it worked- i still dont have anything to read, but i feel happier. - i've decided that books and chocolate are about even on the happiness scale- but chocolate is cheeper, so it wins most of the time
nancy...my heart goes out to you...what a shame...a witch...abortion...it's so sad that it was all present in a church...it could have been a mega church or a minor church...it's sad that it's in a church at all...
I work at a catholic University...Saint Francis, for those keeping score...and they (the campus) hired the sculpting teacher to create a sculpture of BUDDUH (sp? who cares really...fat, ugly prophet of silliness) Which now stands at the edge of the Art building...sorry...ranting...
Kristin,
Coming in late to read your blog post on Haggard and leaders. You go girl! I couldn't have said it better. God demands more of His leaders and he will not let sin go unpunished. I have to wonder how many times Haggard felt God's nudge on his inner being to come clean and he ignored it. I'm in leadership both in ACFW and in my church and God has not ignored my sin when I've continued to rationalize it away. I know to God sin is sin. He doesn't measure its severity like a lot of us do, saying my sin isn't as bad as his. I'm still okay.
I attend a large church--hardly mega in size. We're about 2,000 members. I know to some that would be mega. But when you have 14,000 member Willow Creek within shouting distance and another very huge church closing in on that attendance count down the other road, 2,000 seems small. We recently had our happy little church family turned on its ear. Now about 150 people have split off and are starting their own church. Not because of any sin, but over a philosophical difference on worship style that resulted in our music pastor being dismissed. I know the hurt and anguish this situation has caused and can imagine how much worse it is for Haggard's church. During some of our rather nasty town meetings I heard some people pledge an allegiance so strong to the former music pastor that it scared me. One person even said the only reason she attended our church was because of this man. To me that's scary. We need to come to church to worship God and serve Him, not to get our fix of the man in the pulpit or the one holding the music baton.
Okay. That's my two cents.
Pam Meyers
visit my blog at http://pammeyerswrites.blogspot.com
(I'm on Beta on Blogger and can't post as a fellow blogger. It won't let me until we're all on the same "page."
Amen! I agree with everything you said. The whole situation is so sad. Especially for his wife.
Kristen,
Jesus did not say we are to wait for either an apology or proof of repentance before we forgive. That's between the sinner and Christ Himself. He said we are to forgive, period.
However, I believe that even if you're right -- that an apology and proof of repentance is necessary before forgiveness -- I don't think Mr. Haggard owes that to either you or I. He would owe it to his family, close friends, and the members of his church. He does not owe it to the world. Despite the fact that his sin has become practically a worldwide scandal, he did not sin against "all of us" any more than I sin against all Christians every time I succumb to selfish pride.
Speaking as someone who failed miserably, both in life and in my Christian walk, I can tell you that the ONLY way I found my way back to a truly Godly life was through the amazing love of those who truly accepted, forgave, and were willing to help me work through the painful process of repentance / redemption / restoration. There was a small handful of people whose love showed me the incredible love of Jesus Himself, and gave me strength to walk my difficult path.
Every person who expressed views similar to yours simply sent me further away, hiding in darkness, more isolated by my pain and my shame. The way that you've expressed your views, though I'm sure this was not your intent, can be extremely harmful to those who most need love and a helping hand.
Galatians 6:1 says "if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently." I think the words "restore" and "gently" are key.
I can certainly appreciate many of your sentiments... we often shy away from calling sin what it is. And perhaps we are too forgiving, simply because it seems expedient, or the easiest way to be free of the messy business.
Yet my personal view is that God allowed Mr. Haggard to be brought down as a radical act of love. I think God knew that this would lead Ted where he needed to go, to a new place of humility and true godliness in his life. I have every expectation that is how this story will end, and for that I praise God.
Despite my disagreement with the way your views were expressed in this particular post, I greatly appreciate your courage to stand up and say what you think. And I continue to love your blog and your books. :-)
(I'm on Beta on Blogger and can't post as a fellow blogger. It won't let me until we're all on the same "page."
Thank you Pam For This Tip.
I was wondering why I could not login.I Find, I only login here till I do so on my blogg frist and then I can login on this blogg and not have to be "anonymous".Something new to find out everyday! Thank's Pam..
I definately appreciate your post in this situation Kristin. We don't look at sin the way we should. We don't respond to sin when we see it in the lives of our brothers and sisters. We sometimes pretend that everything is okay. People are so busy thinking that the passage about where two or more are gathered in his name is about worship that they overlook the very important message. If we have talked to a brother or sister about their sin and they do not change, we are to take another brother or sister with us to approach that person about their sin because where two or more of us are gathered together, there also is our Lord. Instead, we whisper behind people's backs or worse yet, accept the sin as a part of today's world. We leave the yeast in the batter.
I don't know if Haggard's confession was genuine. We certainly didn't hear about the confession and asking of forgiveness until the sin was brought to light by participants in his sin. If he has truly asked for forgiveness, as a sister in Christ, I must give that forgiveness. He will need to demonstrate to his wife and to fellow beleivers around him that he is truly repentant of his sins. It would have certainly been braver of him to appear before the congregation himself that he wronged. Certainly, he wronged his wife and family and has asked for their forgiveness.
I pray his request for forgiveness is genuine and that he will truly turn away from this sin. From this distance, its all I can do.
You are certainly right that he has to own his sin and turn his life around.
Putting your trust in people will always lead your heart astray. We must put our trust in God and remember that people are flawed.
Kristen, by the way... I love hearing this side of you. I know your fiction is Christian lit and I love it, but it isn't heavy. I enjoy 'talking' with you about these matters of salvation.
Terry
One more thing... I thought of this when I read the end of Reese's comment, saying that Mr. Haggard should not be in a position of spiritual leadership again.
Charles Spurgeon said that a spiritual leader who has fallen should not be back in a position of leadership "until his repentance is as notorious as his sin." I've found this to be very helpful in the way that I think about spiritual leaders. We can't prematurely judge them unfit to ever lead again -- that will be up to God.
I think most likely what will happen with Mr. Haggard is that, like most fallen leaders, he will eventually have a small but very effective ministry in which he himself is practically invisible. His humility will be apparent and he will be completely lifting up God, not himself. His fall will have brought him closer to the heart of God and made him even more of a force for the Kingdom. This has happened numerous times in the past, most notably with Jim Bakker, who has renounced and repented of his previous "prosperity ministry" and currently has a quiet and effective ministry.
Good point, Rachelle.
I think his repentance would have to be AT LEAST as notoriuos as his sin (what a great quote) for anyone to trust him again. The hurt brought on by a leader's betrayal of trust is deep and people instictively put up walls and shut the sinner out. No one wants to be "duped" again, so I almost think his repentance would need to be MORE notorious than his sin, and even then those who chose to trust him would be a small group.
King David continued in his role of leadership even after adultry and the indirect murder of a man to cover it up. And he is known to this day as a man after God's own heart.
This is my first time finding this site and I must say as a pastor, it has blessed me greatly. I truly believe that judgment begins in the house of God. God cannot judge the prostitute on the street corner until He judges the prostitue in the pulpit. Judgment begins with me, as a pastor. Yes we forgive those who sin and truly repent but there must be a standard in the five-fold ministry that holds us accountable for the lives we live before the people of God. How can I preach holiness and not live what I preach?
The veil is being removed from much that is going on in the church world today and as that veil is removed, I believe we will see what the prophet Ezekiel saw in Ezekiel Chapter 8:1-17. Then we will see also the judgement of Ezekiel Chapter 9:1-7. The place this judgement began was "...at my sanctuary." (v 6)
Truth is on trial in the Church of America and I want to thank you for your boldness to speak that truth.
I Lay My Head To The Cross,
Pastor Billy Wallace
Jesus Is Lord Church
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